7 Steps for Smashing Your Sugar Addiction
Live Purely with Jesse Merrill
Jesse Merrill of Good Culture: Building a Mission-Based Brand and Reinventing the Food System
Elizabeth welcomes Jesse Merrill, Co-Founder and CEO of Good Culture, the maker of ridiculously good cottage cheese and the perfect snack pairing with some Purely Elizabeth granola. Jesse talks about food as medicine and the importance of gut health, how we can reinvent the food systems using regenerative agriculture, and what he learned at his time with Honest Tea about building a mission-based brand. Jesse opens up about his own health struggles and the personal wellness journey that led him into launching Good Culture in 2015. At the end of the episode, Jesse gives us a glimpse of what’s usually in his shopping cart and a few of his favorite life hacks for staying energetic and centered during his busy days.
I've always believed that you could heal yourself through food and lifestyle canges. - Jesse Merrill
Podcast transcript below:
Elizabeth Stein 00:00
Hi, everyone. I'm Elizabeth Stein, founder and CEO of purely Elizabeth. And this is live purely with Elizabeth, featuring candid conversations about how to thrive on your wellness journey. This week's guest is Jesse Merrill, co founder and CEO of Good Culture, the maker of ridiculously good cottage cheese and one of my favorite brands to pair my purely Elizabeth granola with. Jessie co founded good culture in 2015, following a personal wellness journey, where eating real healing foods cured him of ulcerative colitis. Through the founding, he learned that most US dairy cows are confined creating not just human health issues, but animal welfare and environmental problems. Today, Good Culture's mission is to reinvent the food system from the ground up and encourage other businesses and consumers to do the same to create healthier people, animals and planet. In this episode, we chat all about Jesse's personal and professional journey from his early days at Honest Tea, to curing himself with cultured foods and launching Good Culture. Jesse and I talk about food as medicine and the importance of gut health, reinventing the food system with regenerative agriculture, the importance of a mission based brand and becoming a platform culture foods company. It was so great to catch up with Jesse keep listening to learn more. Jesse, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you on I was just chatting with a group of people yesterday, and we were saying that you have the absolute hands down best cottage cheese in the market. No questions asked.
Jesse Merrill 01:44
Awesome. Thank you.
Elizabeth Stein 01:46
Combined with our granola. It's perfection.
Jesse Merrill 01:50
Yeah, 100% I eat it daily.
Elizabeth Stein 01:52
Me too. So let's start with your journey that led to starting Good Culture.
Jesse Merrill 02:00
Yes. So I started in experiential Event Marketing. That was kind of the beginning of my career here. And that led to a opportunity with Moby the techno Rocker from the 90s, who had a small tea company called Teeny, so 14 New York, it was a better for you tea in Manhattan only. And I was brought on to help lead his experiential marketing charge. And I did that with him for about a year and a half. It was a crash course in brand building, because he had like three people. And I was though I was brought in on the marketing side, I also quickly learned how to roll within sales and within operations and finance, etc. So it was a great opportunity for me to learn a lot very quickly.
Elizabeth Stein 02:43
Was that your first job out of college experience, experiential marketing, or
Jesse Merrill 02:48
No, my first job out of college actually, if you go way back was in filmmaking, I was a PAing on film sets, because I thought I wanted to become a filmmaker, a director, cinematographer, I still kind of feel like I want to do that at some point in my life, but maybe I will, maybe I won't, but I started there. And actually, when you're PAing, you don't make that much money. And so I was looking for ways to make additional dollars. And I did that through becoming a brand ambassador, I became a sampler. So I was like working for brands sampling in supermarkets helping to push their product. And that's what opened up the world of that, you know, experiential marketing to me. So I started to meet some of the activation companies that were hired to drive those BA programs. And I ultimately got hired with those groups to become, you know, a larger manager within the within the design and concepting for those for those tours. So that's what put me into experiential event marketing that led me to Moby and teeny. Moby decided to sell the company after about a year and a half. It was growing quite well within New York, but it required him to continue to invest. He was personally funding the entire thing. He didn't want to raise money. And he was working on an album, right because he's a musician. And he ultimately decided to sell the company. And that, for me opened the door to Honest Tea, which was a great opportunity Honest Tea at the time was small, they were sub 10 million revenue. They were sold primarily in the natural channel, right, like Whole Foods was like their number one account, they were showing good traction there. But this was a time when folks didn't care about organic they didn't know about organic. They certainly weren't willing to pay a premium for organic they didn't care about low sugar alternatives that you looked at the tea space at that point in time. The stars were 99 cent can Arizona with high fructose corn syrup and you know Snapple Peach Diet Snapple that was my drink. Yeah, right right so like that's what was selling and so Honest tea was definitely well ahead of their time because they introduced this organic lightly sweetened better for you tea it was super disruptive doing well, like I said in the natural channel with accounts like Whole Foods, but they wanted to expand, you know and go wider than where they were. And so I was brought on to lead to marketing charge within the New York Metro market, I did that with them for several months, we did quite well. And then I was promoted to the director of marketing role. And then ultimately the vice president of marketing role. As I said, I joined when they were sub 10 million revenue grew the brand to about 75 million revenue. And then we sold the company to Coca Cola in 2011. So amazing opportunity got to work under Seth Goldman, who's the genuine, all real deal, he is authentically a mission driven founder, and I got to kind of learn a lot from him, and work under him. And that, for me, really became the inspiration or the catalyst for wanting to ultimately create my own purpose led company.
Elizabeth Stein 05:41
What were some of the biggest lessons that you learned from Seth?
Jesse Merrill 05:45
To stay true to your values, right, never never stray from your values, no matter what you can change your strategies, but you can't change your values. If you start to erode values, you really lose kind of your, your purpose or your why. And then you don't have a team of dedicated, passionate folks that are all rowing in the same direction, and that don't have the passion and the fight to really want to get to the top of the mountain. And so I think the biggest thing that I learned two big things that I learned that that kind of touch on those, those items, number one, don't stray from values, be authentic, and everything that you do show up every day, and show up every day with passion and ensure that you are communicating those values in a coherent way so that everybody understands what the bigger purpose of the company is, that they understand what the why is. And like I said, if they all believe that, then you're going to breed a group of incredibly passionate people, I mean, that the team at Honest Tea was insanely passionate. I mean, they would run through walls to to achieve our goals, right. And so for me, that was a huge learning is something that I absolutely wanted to take with me and rebuild with Good Culture.
Elizabeth Stein 06:53
What were I guess, digging a little deeper into that? Like, what were some of the best ways that you saw Seth do that? And that you might do that today in okay, you have a set of values you have heres our why and purpose but like, how do you really bring that to life? And for tips for anybody who has their own business? What are some of those great tips to really help instill that time over time? So people don't forget?
Jesse Merrill 07:18
Yep, no, a great. So our it's our why is to reinvent the food system from the actual ground up. That's kind of the the highest ground right? So we have a brand architecture sheet, we have a company strategy that we that we circulate to the team, we actually just took our team through this exercise about a week ago to ensure everybody was calibrated fully clear on what what the highest ground is, what did you know, what is our why? What is our? What, what is our? How are we ensuring that everyone is fully in line with that. So number one, make sure they understand it. And then number two, make sure that you're actually walking the walk, right. So it can't just be a piece of paper. And I think that's a misstep that several companies do make where they have good intentions. And they may document the things they may have, may have process, but it never becomes more than that piece of paper. And so you have to ensure that you are truly making decisions based on those core values. You have to hire and fire against those against those core values. And you have to make key strategic decisions for the company growth decisions for the company, based on those core values, even if it doesn't mean you know, better, better economics initially. You have to look at the higher the highest ground and look at your purpose and let that really be your Northstar. And like I said, walk walk the walk. So, you know, at Honest Tea, you know, they were pushing forward on democratizing organics on driving more Fairtrade SKUs. And though that was challenging, and potentially not the most, you know, not not the best thing economically at all times. It still was a decision that they made because it, you know, it laddered up to the mission. And that's something that good culture that we we also do, right? We make decisions on ingredient sourcing on selection on supply chain, that don't necessarily always drive the best economics, but it does roll up to the mission and ensures that we're truly creating change and doing what we're saying we're doing.
Elizabeth Stein 09:03
That's awesome. Thank you. So alright, let's take one step back. So you're at Honest Tea, decide you want to, you know, create your own mission aligned business. How, why cottage cheese, how did that come about?
Jesse Merrill 09:17
Elizabeth Stein 12:11
Wow, I can't believe that cottage cheese is bigger than yogurt. So interesting. And to your point, it's just like without that innovation it just kind of sat there and you guys came into market. So I know that part of your story also is that you had a personal health journey that kind of tied into cottage cheese and some some of the benefits. So would love to talk a little bit about that as well.
Jesse Merrill 12:34
Yeah, for sure. So we saw the business opportunity in cottage cheese and started going down that path, right because of all the things I just said. As I was going through that journey, I was diagnosed with a an autoimmune condition called ulcerative colitis, where you have unnecessary inflammation in your gut, your immune system effectively attacks itself that treats food as a foreign invader, it creates all sorts of pain and bloating, you can't really eat you don't absorb nutrition, you lose a ton of weight. It's hard to to sleep to function, et cetera. Right. So it was a pretty, pretty rough situation for me.
Elizabeth Stein 13:10
How long did it take you to figure that out that that was what you had?
Jesse Merrill 13:14
Like two months, because I just kept on riding through it. I was like, alright, it's probably food poisoning. Or maybe I had like a stomach virus. Like, I assume it'll go away at some point, like, I tried to grind through. But it got to a point, as I said, where I was, I started to drop weight rapidly. And that's when I started to get really scared. I was like, alright, like something is clearly not right here. I'm not getting better. It's getting progressively worse. And now I'm losing weight. And so I went to a GI and I took him through my symptoms. And he was like, okay, that doesn't sound good. You need to get into my office and have an immediate colonoscopy and see what's going on and did that and I was diagnosed with with ulcerative colitis, they told me that it was a chronic condition, that the only way to kind of manage the symptoms is through harsh drugs like steroids, not something I wanted to live on. They told me I would need to live on those for life. I asked if there was anything that I could do from a diet modification standpoint. And they said absolutely not. There's not enough science to support that. And that yeah, there's really no I had no other options other than to live on these medications. So I pushed back on that. I didn't believe in that. I grew up in a in a household where we believed in food as medicine. My mom worked for a nutritionist Gary Noll for several several years.
Elizabeth Stein 14:29
Oh wow. I used to live in New York across a Gary Noll store.
Jesse Merrill 14:33
Oh really? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, she worked for him. She was a chef for him for soa few years. Yeah, totally. So I grew up in that household. So it was like in the 80s. And we're eating like veggie burgers and like all sorts of things that were like radical at the time. I've always believed that you could heal yourself through food and lifestyle changes. And so I pushed back I met with a functional doctor, an integrative doctor, and asked if there was something more that I could do something different that I could that I could do. They put me onto a special diet. And they said, Absolutely, we have other patients who have ulcerative colitis who have responded quite well to these lifestyle changes. And I got into a diet that consisted of grass fed meat, cooked vegetables, and nothing raw it's too hard to digest raw fruit and cultured dairy. And I did I cut out nuts, I cut out seeds, I cut out grain, alcohol, caffeine, right. So I couldn't, I couldn't eat a lot it was it was highly, highly restrictive, and started to eat that way. And within a few weeks, noticed a massive turnaround, my symptoms started to to fade. They had, like I said, bloating and sharp pains, all that started to go away pretty rapidly, I noticed that I was starting to put weight back on, I felt like I was absorbing nutrition. So my energy levels increased. And so I felt like it was working. And so that gave me the confidence to keep going. Obviously, if I didn't see benefit, I probably would have had to go back to the medication because it is a dangerous disease and has to be managed. But it was working. And so I kept, you know, kept going, they told me it would take three years to fully heal my gut if I if I stayed true to this diet. And so I did that I went all in and stayed on it for three years, every year.. You ate just that for three years? Yeah, three years, like didn't cheat at all. And they told me they're like, if you cheat at all, you're gonna lose all your progress. Like even if you go out one night and have a beer that like that might reset the whole thing. So like, like, stay true, like, you gotta you gotta keep going, and be super, super disciplined. And so I did it. And at the end of year one, I had another cold I had to get have a colonoscopy every single year, which is not fun. But I did at the end of year one, and it showed that my inflammation levels had come down. I did it at the end of year two, and it showed that my inflammation levels had returned to a normal healthy level. And at the end of year three, it shows I had a biopsy done because they didn't see anything visibly, and they had a biopsy taken and my pathology came back showing that there was no signs of UC at all. And I'm not sure what you did, but you healed your ulcerative colitis. So whatever you did keep doing it. And we'll see you and we'll see you in 10 years. And that was it. And so ever since you know, I continue to follow a pre disciplined diet, because when you have an autoimmune condition, you can always awaken the monster, it's possible to come back. So you gotta like you still have to be pretty disciplined. But I'm at a point now where I can do more like I can, I can eat a slice of pizza, if I want to, right I can I can have a slice of bread or something. So I've, I've pretty much returned to a normal place. But I do try to maintain that diet as much as I can to ensure I don't push too far.
Elizabeth Stein 17:39
Wow, that's amazing. I mean, such a firm believer in food as medicine and not taking one doctor's answer to say you need to be on drugs and like really like asking questions and looking for alternatives, because in most cases, there is another solution out there, and it's food. And it's also my second question is going to be also just like lifestyle, because stress can play such a big factor into that. So I'm curious to hear how, what the timing of this was, when starting good culture and how how lifestyle could affected that and like how you kind of worked through those pieces of it?
Jesse Merrill 18:20
Yeah, well, I will say how it informed kind of the the mission behind good culture. And all this was happening, like I said, in year one of driving this brand creating this brand. When this happened, though, I was already you know, a big believer in food as medicine, it really put at the forefront. And I was like, Okay, this needs to be, you know, a major part of how we build this brand, right? It has to inform ingredient selection, sourcing, etc, we need to ensure that the ingredients that we're using for this product, don't create unnecessary inflammation. So that means no gums, right, like several companies will use gums, gums are inflammatory. That was something that I could absolutely not eat when I when I when I had you say so that it absolutely informed ingredient selection. It also drove me to really focus on the cultured food piece, the fermented food piece, because there's all sorts of beneficial bacteria that provide benefits to your microbiome. And if you have a healthy microbiome, then you should have overall wellness because all disease starts starts in the gut. And so there's definitely a direct correlation between gut health and overall wellness, you know, brain health, immunity, etc. And so that is a big part of, you know, in terms of how we show up as a brand in terms of how we think about product innovation, that is always at the forefront. So that personal healing story 100% You know, drove a lot of our thinking in terms of how we build build this brand. In terms of other lifestyle changes. I think it made me much more aware of the choices that I make on a day to day basis. In terms of what I need to do to show up as a you know, a strong leader, an energized leader, my can't just take that stuff for granted because it's really easy to get caught up in eating junk. and food and not sleeping well, and, you know, skipping meals and doing all these things, because you're so busy as you as you build a company, but I put so much importance behind those decisions now. So I ensure that I don't skip those things, right? Like I make sure that I, I push to get my six to eight hours of sleep, even if it means I'm going to bed late, I go to bed super late, because I'm someone that does stay up late naturally. Like, I don't like to go to bed until like, I don't know, midnight when, yeah, but so but I try to like I make sure like, I'll still get like, if I go to bed at like 12,12:30. You know, I'll sleep till like, 7, 7:15 where, you know, other people that I know are getting up at like, 4am to go for a run, I don't do that person, yes, I need to get my hours in. And then when I wake up, I make sure that I 100% get my exercise in, right. I don't ever skip that. So I generally go swimming in the morning, some kind of cardio, swimming, or running or cycling, but I really do like swimming and running probably the most. So I make sure that I get that in. And then I and then I meditate. Right? So mental health is a major, major part of it. You know, it's as you know, building Purely Elizabeth, there are lots of dark moments when you're building a company or brand and things are not going the way you want them to. And it's quite easy to get overwhelmed and to, you know, to to kind of take on more of a scarcity mindset. And meditation really helps with that. I think it helps to put things into perspective so that you're always seeing, you know, kind of the bigger the bigger picture.
Elizabeth Stein 21:26
What kind of meditation do you do?
Jesse Merrill 21:30
Do I actually do different like I'm big on following apps like headspace app I did for a while. I had to I don't know if you've heard of this product called sensate where it actually like, vibrates on you. Yeah. So it's supposed to drive relaxation, the vibration on your chest is supposed to create a relaxed, relaxed, relaxed state, deep relaxed state. And you do that while you're also like visualizing. And so I do that in the evenings. And then I also generally will, will follow apps or sometimes I'll just, you know, go into my little meditation room, which is my closet. Yeah, I have multiple kids who, you know, kind of get in the way if I don't do that. And so I will go into my closet and sit in that room and just do breathing exercises and visualization. And, you know, and it just puts me at ease. Again, it helps me to kind of like, reset and look at the bigger picture and kind of appreciate everything that's happening.
Elizabeth Stein 22:24
Yeah, I think, as you said, it's so critical. I mean, it's so critical for everybody to be doing that. But I think particularly building your business and company, it's so many moments of highs and lows, that it's hard to stay the most even keeled as possible, and figuring out what works the best for you to be able to do that.
Jesse Merrill 22:46
Yes, you have. You have to find your balance somehow.
Elizabeth Stein 22:50
If balance exists.
Jesse Merrill 22:52
Right, yeah, just Yeah. Try and try not to live in the extremes.
Elizabeth Stein 22:55
Yeah, exactly. So let's get back into sourcing and sustainability. And I think it's, you know, obviously it was really difficult and hard for you personally, having this diagnosis, but hearing it it's like the silver lining was that it really informed your entire company and gave you such a probably specific I mean, you wouldn't have even been able to sample the product if it didn't adhere to all your needs. Still, you were very particular about it. And I know still very particular about sourcing and sustainability ingredients would love just to dive deeper into what that looks like today and and where you're headed with it.
Jesse Merrill 23:41
Yep, no, absolutely. So typically, when I tell my creation story, I always say there's like two things that really drove inspiration above and beyond the business thesis. And number one was my healing story. The second one was supply chain, and, you know, milk supply overall. And I didn't know a lot about dairy coming into the space, as I told you, I was I was a tea guy. And so when I got into the space, I learned that 90% of us dairy cows were confined, and that completely broke my heart and realized that the food system was broken. And that change needed to happen. So when I launched good culture, we launched as an organic only company because if you know when with organic products that ensures that animals spend a certain number of days on pasture. But as we scaled it was not possible to to go with an organic proposition and across all channels because the pricing was prohibitive for for several shoppers and we needed to scale and democratize you know, the kind of the mission more broadly. So we created a line of products that were pasture raised. And we did that for some time with one small co Packer that we had in Wisconsin, and it was great. We had an organic line we had a pasture raised line. As we scaled beyond that we started to look at other facilities, other milk sheds, you know other other co-ops etc and realized that, that pasteurized milk supply didn't exist in a big way. And that it would become increasingly more difficult to to source pasteurized milk for our products. And that was obviously a big a big challenge for us. And what we needed to do was effectively create a new milk supply in order to do that, and that is something that we are currently working on. So we partnered with the largest dairy co op in the country, DFA. And we are working with them on a program called path to pasture, where we are a where we are actually converting conventional farms to regenerative farms with a focus on planned grazing, and pasture. And so that is a work in progress, it doesn't happen overnight, it creates a lot of work to drive, you have to build an entirely new food supply is quite challenging. But if we do this right, we will be in a place you know, once we kind of achieve our Fulbright solution, we will have created major food system change. And so that for us is also you know, a major Northstar and a huge, huge part of our mission, we're a certified B Corporation, where 1% for the planet company 1% of net sales from our organic products go towards this effort to help convert confined animals to to regenerative farms. So yeah, it's a it's a big part of who we are, what we stand for, it's a big, it's, you know, rolls up perfectly to our to our brand mission or why statement, and really, really drives us. So we're absolutely walking the walk there. And we'll continue to to, to lean in until we have that solution in place.
Elizabeth Stein 26:31
That's so exciting. We're starting to actually get into buying regen oats, oil and sugar and actually embarking on a pretty interesting research project to understand nutrient level in the soil when it's farmed regeneratively, like what actually happens and to have that data but curious to hear for you what that path will look like to convert, like how long of a journey is that going to be? And just any other details on region that you found that are like super interesting on this process? Because i i and our commute, I think find it fascinating. And I searched the future of the world solution in so many ways.
Jesse Merrill 27:12
Oh, totally 100% I mean, it's still pretty much in its infancy, right. So it's starting to gain some traction. And you know, some there's, there's more, you know, kind of PR around regenerative AG, which is great to see. But I think you know, for the most part, most consumers don't really know what regenerative AG is today. So definitely a big opportunity to bring this to the forefront in a more meaningful way. But for us, it's a holistic solution, right? Because if you can improve soil health, you are capturing more carbon, you are cleaning up, you know, or you're improving water quality, you are ensuring that the animal is getting out onto pasture. So there's a there's an animal welfare component, and you are driving a more profitable model for the small family farm who's struggling right now. And you know, it's a win win for everybody. I mean, that's that's how I view it. And you know, that's a lot of people view it, it's just a matter of getting the farm farmer to kind of go through that journey. To answer your question. The timeline is kind of different for everybody, depending on where the farm is. And because some farms have no pasture, and if they have no pasture, that's, that's problematic. And that would take more time some farms do have a pasture, but they just need to like build a fence to ensure that the other animals have access, you know, to pasture. But there is a lot of strategy that goes behind planned grazing, you have to move the animals methodically from paddock to paddock, you know, kind of strategically to ensure that they're, they're, you know, optimizing for soil health, that they're not eating too much grass and exposing the ground. Because if you exposed the ground, and that's going to lead to desertification. So there's a ton of opportunity and it is, like I said, a holistic, holistic opportunity, but the solve for the farmer, right? If it works, you should theoretically, increase your yields. And you should decrease your inputs, right. And so if you're doing that, that that should create a more profitable model for the farmer. So it should be something that everybody kind of wants to push for. So it's a win for the farmer, it's a win for the planet. It's a win for the animal. And it's a win for for consumers or people because you're growing more nutrient dense food. If you do this, right, right, the healthier the soil, the more nutrient dense your foods going to be.
Elizabeth Stein 29:21
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's, that's our exciting part about this research is to really say and prove the fact of like what happens to soil look what happens to the Oh, like they're the nutrition level is just only going to increase in the level of the nutrition of your ricotta cheese is going to be that much more beneficial for you.
Jesse Merrill 29:43
Elizabeth Stein 29:46
So looking ahead into 2023 What are you most excited about? Because 2022 was definitely a very difficult year. curious what's exciting ahead.
Jesse Merrill 29:57
Wow, there's a lot because you're right 2022 was a very tough year due to the macro economic climate, geopolitical issues, inflation, right, all of all the things everything we saw in the headlines. Yeah, it was a challenging, challenging year. But you are starting to see some promising signals, you're starting to see inflation ease, you are not seeing dramatic erosion in demand today for better for you premium products, which is which is great. And I think, you know, in our business, specifically, we're really paying a lot of attention to commodities, and commodities, right now, we're starting to kind of come back in line with what we would expect, they're still high versus 2021, and previous years, but they are coming back down to, you know, a more palatable level. And so I'm encouraged because it positions us to scale and continues us, it positions us to drive, you know, more investment behind the brand. And that's, that's a big part of how we're thinking about good cultures growth from here, because to date, we've done a great job of building our brand through conversion, marketing, performance, marketing, shopper marketing, whatever you want to call it, but it's been much more product driven in store driven. And now we're leaning in more on top of funnel awareness driving marketing, to ensure the more people know about our story about our mission, about the brand, man, so we're excited about that next kind of level of growth. But that's only possible if things improve, you know, from a costing standpoint, right? Because that allows that gives you enough margin to be able to actually invest in those things. And I see this as the year where we will, you know, hopefully have the opportunity to start doing that. So we can scale you know, much more aggressively and become become a, you know, an enduring brand and a household name. So exciting. This Yeah, is totally one. And we've launched more new products, we just launched a cream cheese. So you're starting to like our journey when we when we launched good culture. We never said we wanted to only be a cottage cheese company, right? Even day one, though, we saw the opportunity in cottage cheese. Anders, I didn't sit down and say, in 10 years from now, we want to own a cottage cheese company. Right? It was more we want to you know, and it wasn't just a cottage cheese or sour cream company because we have sour cream. Also, there was we want to build a cultured foods platform company, a culture foods platform company that's focused on gut health and whole you know, and overall wellness. Right. So that that was that is the larger idea that is 100%, our Northstar. And I think we're starting to kind of go through that journey as we launch new products. And as I said, we just launched cream cheese. We also have a probiotic fluid milk that just launched. And we have our sour cream, and we have cottage cheese innovation. So there's a lot happening now where we're starting to build out that portfolio and ultimately ladder up to that larger vision of becoming that cultured foods platform company.
Elizabeth Stein 32:44
Cool. So if you could share. And you could also say you can't share but what's like the crazy, most far out idea that could fall under the umbrella just of gut health?
Jesse Merrill 32:56
It's a good question and one that we're actually analyzing right now, very, very closely. Just had a meeting about it this week, with our with our head of marketing, and there's a lot of thinking there. We still we don't we don't want to go too wide too fast, right? So we still are gonna need to be incredibly thoughtful. But I mean, look, if you opened it up to just culture foods broadly, you can go into sauerkraut, you can go in like all sorts of places. I don't think we would do that. But certainly it gives you a lot of latitude to be really thoughtful in terms of how you think about driving culture foods or fermented foods more broadly. Beyond dairy, right? I don't, I don't think we necessarily need to be a cultured dairy company. I think we can definitely you know, go go wider and become a cultured foods company. I just don't know exactly what those products or categories look like, right this second. But there's, there's there's a lot of ideas and I do think, you know, one filter would be it needs to be food based or a food product supplement. Yeah, I don't see. Yeah, exactly. I don't see us going into supplements as an example. Ideally, we would we would remain a food based solution to gut health.
Elizabeth Stein 34:00
Well, we'll stay tuned for, five year innovation pipeline. What would you say you obviously had a ton of background both even just from demoing because honestly I'm sure that gave you so much understanding of the supermarket the consumer getting that feedback I mean that foundational job to begin with and then obviously through your career, but what would you say was the most surprising when you started good culture that you know maybe coming in you thought oh, I have all this knowledge but then not till you really start the brand from scratch? Might you have thought something different?
Jesse Merrill 34:40
Yeah, you know, I think it's a good question. I feel probably one of the biggest learnings for me was that there's no clear kind of beginning middle end. I think when I first got into it, I was like, okay, earlier years this is going to happen and middle years this is gonna happen and then we're gonna have this is like, you know, ultimate, you know, ending and we're all gonna ride off into the Sunset. And it's definitely much more fluid than that it's definitely more of a continuum, you're always evolving, you're always growing, you know, things are good things are bad. And so I no longer have, you know, kind of that that more narrow view on how business is built, you have to be able to adapt, and flex and evolve across the whole journey, regardless of what phase of growth you're in. So I think that was a big learning. The second one that I would underscore is probably around culture building and people management, I think when you start a company, you think you can do everything yourself, right, you're kind of like, you know, you're all involved, you're gonna climb them out on your own. And yeah, if you need to do it on your own, you're gonna do it all on your own. And then as you start to scale and you get bigger, you realize how critical it is to have a team of people around you that believe in you believe in the mission, that are you know, that you're ensuring that everyone is rowing in the same direction. But in order to do that, you need to build a culture that people really care about, they really need to believe in, the higher the higher ground, they need to believe in your purpose and your why. And they need to believe in those things authentically. And if they don't, they're never going to run as hard as you want them to run. And you are never on your own going to have enough time to build the business effectively. Though, you may think you can do it in years one and year two, you quickly realize that the company suffers if you try to do everything yourself. So you have to get really good at driving people first culture get really good at delegating and fostering an environment where you know, people have a big voice and have the ability to really impact change.
Elizabeth Stein 36:36
I love that. How do you think that you have changed since good culture? What are some of the ways personally or professionally that you've evolved and grown?
Jesse Merrill 36:50
Yeah, you know, I think. And I want to be careful how they say, because I don't want to make it sound like I've lost urgency, but I think I've been like, like, because I think when I first started going back, similar to what I just said earlier, like when you first start, it's like all passion, right? You're like more faster, better, more, faster, better, go, go, go, go go. That's not always the best solution, right? Like, sometimes it's actually better to take a pause, and to, you know, pull back and look at things objectively and think about things for a minute and be more methodical and strategic in terms of how you grow your business. And so I think I've been able to, as I've matured, as a CEO and co founder in this role, I've been able to take a bigger step back and, and probably not lead with as much emotion, emotion is still a really important, and still a big part of who I am and how I and how I lead. I think gut instinct, and emotion is critical. But you don't want it to be all emotion. Because and I think for a lot of founders, when they start, it's like 100% emotion. Yeah. And that is helpful in earlier years, right. And because you do need to run really hard. And you do need to do a lot of things. You don't have time, you don't have time, you know, people you don't have resources. And it's just like, you know, go all in Go, run, run super hard, super hard, super hard. So I think I've learned to be able to kind of step back and be more thoughtful, understand the bigger picture, be more strategic, be more prescriptive in terms of how we, you know, build and scale.
Elizabeth Stein 38:21
I think that's really good feedback. I think it's also hard, or I'm finding it hard that I totally agree. Like, that's where I was and evolving to that. But I also want to make sure that we're not being like too methodical and strategic and taking too much time. Right. And it's like, okay, innovation used to take us like, a month, and we'd have a sample to Whole Foods. And that would be that. And now it's like a year.
Jesse Merrill 38:46
Yes, yes. Well, yeah, it's like the paralysis by analysis. Again, you don't want to over analyze either. I think maintaining gut, maintaining instinct is critical. So you definitely don't want to lose that. Otherwise, to your point, you're going to move too slow. And then you're going to, you know, show up and behave the way a big company, you know, shows up and behaves. And, you know, one of the competitive competitive advantages that a smaller company has is that we can be more nimble. And we can, you know, you know, we can we can pivot, we can go fast, and we don't necessarily have to go through, you know, a year of legal review, to make a decision. Right. So, yeah, you absolutely want to maintain that. And I'm a big believer in letting gut and instinct kind of carry you forward. There's, there's the famous quote, if you ask the people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses. So I don't think you're going to create true true disruption if you're letting those choices be made solely by data. But I do think data also plays a role. Right. So I think there's a place for the for data to help validate, but you don't want that. That to be the thing that's that's driving the decision. For sure. That's, that's making the decision.
Elizabeth Stein 39:55
For sure. Yeah. All right. We're gonna move into some rapid fire q&a. What do you wish more people knew about you?
Jesse Merrill 40:03
That I love them and I appreciate them.
Elizabeth Stein 40:05
Aw, must read business book.
Jesse Merrill 40:09
Shoe Dog by Phil Knight. Have you read that?
Elizabeth Stein 40:12
I haven't. I feel like I know. I'm way behind right by not reading that.
Jesse Merrill 40:16
And apparently now there's a movie coming out about it. Like Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, I think. But think about Yeah, it's so good.
Elizabeth Stein 40:25
Favorite good culture moment.
Jesse Merrill 40:29
For me, it was validating proof of concept, right when I like you work so hard to get it on shelf. And that's gratifying. But what's more gratifying gratifying is when you see it actually move off shelf. And when you see that the velocities are there and that you're suddenly becoming a category leader across several key retailers. When we started to see that data materialize and learn like wow, we're you know, we're the number one selling cottage cheese brand in Whole Foods. You know, we're all we're almost 60 Share and over. I mean, that's amazing. So when you start to see that come to life, it just it's so rewarding and validating and it just makes you feel like like you've you've built something that's truly meaningful and enduring.
Elizabeth Stein 41:10
Three things that you're currently loving
Jesse Merrill 41:14
Succession. I don't know if you've seen that show. Amazing. Yes. Yep. Open by Andre Agassi.
Elizabeth Stein 41:21
I love that book.
Jesse Merrill 41:23
So good luck. Yeah, I've already read it. I'm reading it again. Because I love that book so much. And then I will go to maybe a food item and I you know, and I'm not just saying this and you said at the start of the call, but I'm currently loving purely Elizabeth granola on good culture 4% cottage cheese and I mean that through and through. I mean, I literally just went to Target two days ago, and I purchased more purely Elizabeth to put on my cottage cheese. It's like the best combo ever.
Elizabeth Stein 41:48
It is really the best combo I will say there's something about like the salty sweetness of it. That just works.
Jesse Merrill 41:56
Yeah. Like yeah, I do granola, blueberries, and some honey I drizzle on and so is it's a good combo
Elizabeth Stein 42:06
is the 4% your personal favorite of your product.
Jesse Merrill 42:09
Either the four or the six that or our double cream. I like I like the higher fat SKUs. They're just really creamy, buttery mouthfeel. So yeah, that's where I go. And I'm a big believer in healthy fats. I think it's okay.
Elizabeth Stein 42:22
For sure. Yeah, well, that leads perfectly into top three items in your shopping cart, but you can it cannot be a purely or a good culture item.
Jesse Merrill 42:31
I mean, I don't think I would even say brands because if you look at my shopping cart, it's a ton of deep green veggies. Root vegetables. I eat tons of sweet potatoes. Sauerkraut, you know, I like I love I eat sauerkraut because it's super healthy, super healthy fermented food.
Elizabeth Stein 42:50
Favorite sauerkraut? Even though you say you weren't going to say a brand?
Jesse Merrill 42:53
Yeah. Probably Wild Brine, is where I go. Yes. Good. Yeah, sometimes Trader Joe's private label, but I like Wild Brine. And then fruit, big, big on berries and fruits. I eat a ton of those. So I like to maintain a shopping cart that's primarily real foods. I don't buy a ton of packaged products. I obviously buy some, but I tried to maintain, you know, a real food, real food diet. If I was a gardener, a farmer, a grower, I'd probably do more of that.
Elizabeth Stein 43:23
curious to hear. Obviously now you've had way more exposure to dairy and meat industry? What's your favorite meat that you buy? Or what kind of meat do you buy?
Jesse Merrill 43:31
I primarily buy organic chicken thighs and organic ground turkey. Those are like my to go tos. I do appreciate a good grass fed steak. But I don't eat it as much I try to limit my red red meat intake and try to maintain more of a Mediterranean diet metri I'm sure you've read several articles and Mediterranean diets. But your every year continues to be like the you know to win. It wins the best diet for longevity. Yeah. And that's something that I'm increasingly more focused on. How do I live longer. As I get older here, I want to try to you know, maximize lifespan. So, you know, Mediterranean diet continues to show up as being the best diet for longevity. So that's, that's what I lean in on.
Elizabeth Stein 44:20
So funny. I was just listening to Jason of MindBodyGreen. Oh, yeah. Talking about Mediterranean diet. And he was like, you know, there you have the Keto influencers and vegan influencers. There's no Mediterranean diet influencers, like it needs a rebrand and it needs some influencers.
Jesse Merrill 44:37
Seriously, I mean, I didn't even realize that I would have thought that there were massive influencers in that space. But yeah, well, hey, maybe you and I an opportunity. Alright, we'll team up on that
Elizabeth Stein 44:49
Game on. Favorite Words To Live By.
Jesse Merrill 44:53
Fight to win versus fighting to not lose. And that has also really inspired me throughout this journey, and drives me every day, right? Because there's several folks that they they fight, but they fight to not lose, right. But to fight to win is an entirely different mindset and a different level of of, you know, how competitive you are and how hard you fight, how hard you run, et cetera, et cetera, you know, you have to have a lot of grit in order to make it in this space. And so I think fighting to win, having that mindset at all times, is paramount, you know, you can always be better today than you were yesterday or better tomorrow than you are today. And so I think maintaining that mindset is a critical one as you as you build a brand.
Elizabeth Stein 45:38
I love that. Yeah. And lastly, what are your top three non negotiables to thrive on your wellness journey? Maybe those three non negotiables that you might do every day or every week? That are absolute.
Jesse Merrill 45:53
Yeah. I mean, I think it probably goes back to what I was saying earlier, like, I can't skip my workout that it has to happen. Regardless of how busy I am, I will always find the time for that. Right. And there are days where it's like, I'm so heavily scheduled, but I will still like strategically move a meeting or like find, even if even if it's 20 minutes or a 30 minute gap where I can go outside and hit a run or go outside and swim some laps in the pool. So..
Elizabeth Stein 46:19
Do you need to put that in your calendar? Or how do you like schedule that?
Jesse Merrill 46:22
I don't actually calendarize that. But I just know, like, I know, I have to work out every single day with Yeah, and it doesn't matter I try to do in the morning, I prefer mornings. If I have early morning meetings, and I can't do it, then I'll work out in the evening. Or maybe I'll do a you know, a workout lunch break or something. But that Yeah, I can't, I can't miss that. My diet is another one. I am not someone that cheats in a big way. You know, my cheat will be like, you know, I'm eating a slice of Amy's pizza, which is a much healthier pizza. But like, you know, maybe like if I'm in New York, I'll get a slice of pizza from like a great New York place. But I'm not going to eat like highly processed pizza. So I don't I don't I don't cheat. Like I know, I think there's a there's a there's a way to cheat where it's still, you know, kind of in line with your health values. And like I said, like, the pizza example is a good one. But I don't think I would ever go to a place where I'm suddenly eating highly processed packaged foods, because I felt like cheating that day. Like that's not
Elizabeth Stein 47:22
You're never buying like a bag of Doritos?
Jesse Merrill 47:24
No, like, that would never happen. I'm not going to do that. Right? Yeah, I'm not going to buy like a bag of you know, ramen, like bad ramen. So anyway, yes, that is a place right on? And then or, yeah, that's the place where I'm always committed. And then the last one I would say is probably sleep slash meditation that for me kind of go hand in hand, like I kind of need to meditate in order to get good sleep. So I need to do both of those things. Well, and I definitely noticed when I don't do those things, and when I don't sleep well, I might I'm so off my game, I'm so much less productive, right? You have like mind fog, and it's harder to be productive, and you don't think as clearly and you don't move as fast and you're just making worse decisions and you're indecisive. So like those are those it's critical that you do those things. So yeah, those are all non negotiables for me.
Elizabeth Stein 48:14
Love it Jesse and closing anything else that you haven't shared or that you want to touch on, or anything that's next other than your five year pipeline that you'll share some time with us later.
Jesse Merrill 48:30
No, I mean, no. First, thank you for having me. I enjoyed the conversation. You know, I think I would just leave leave people with learn more about the benefits of fermented foods and cultured foods. It is a critical part of a healthy diet and a lot of people don't eat enough cultured foods, fermented foods. So I think it's something that everyone should pay attention to. You know, cultured foods provide benefits for beneficial bacteria that convert carbohydrates into more digestible protein and other nutrients which actually makes your food more bioavailable, so you're actually absorbing more nutrition, and that is so crucial to having a healthy lifestyle. So I will leave you with that make sure you, you you get more cultured foods, fermented foods into your diet because it's a critical part of a healthy lifestyle.
Elizabeth Stein 49:19
Awesome. Jesse, thank you so much for coming on. This was so great to catch up.
Jesse Merrill 49:24
Awesome. Thanks for having me.
Elizabeth Stein 49:26
Thanks so much for joining me and live purely with Elizabeth. I hope you feel inspired to thrive on your wellness journey. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to rate subscribe and review. You can follow us on Instagram at purely_Elizabeth to catch up on all the latest. See you next Wednesday on the podcast.