It’s all about the nervous system this week, as Elizabeth welcomes Jessica McGuire, expert in nervous system repair, TEDx speaker, and founder of the popular Instagram account, Repairing the Nervous System. Jessica holds a Bachelor of Health Science and a Master of Physiotherapy, with postgraduate studies in neuroscience, neuroplasticity, brain-body medicine, and heart biofeedback. She is also the founder of the Nervous System School.
Jessica talks about the vagus nerve and how it regulates the body’s response to stress, the connection between gut health and the nervous system, and some practical strategies for resetting the nervous system for healing and well-being. She gives us a sneak peak into her book The Nervous System Reset, a tangible and science-backed guide to resetting and regulating your body.
-
PODCAST TRANSCRIPT
Elizabeth Stein 0:00
Hi everyone. I'm Elizabeth Stein, founder and CEO of Purely Elizabeth, and this is Live Purely with Elizabeth, featuring candid conversations about how to thrive on your wellness journey. This week, I welcome Jessica McGuire to the podcast. She is an expert in nervous system repair, a TEDx speaker, and the voice of the popular Instagram account, Repairing the Nervous System. She holds a Bachelor of Health Science degree and a Master’s in Physiotherapy. Her postgraduate study includes the fields of neuroscience, neuroplasticity, brain-heart biofeedback, and brain-body medicine. She is also the founder of the Nervous System School, where she teaches a long-term, sustainable, transformative methodology of nervous system repair, empowering students to step into the driver's seat of their own health and well-being. In this episode, we cover everything you want to know about the nervous system and stress, focusing on the vagus nerve and its role in regulating the body’s response to stress. We talk about the impact of chronic and traumatic stress on the body, the importance of interoception, and the connection between gut health and the nervous system. Lastly, Jessica shares strategies for resetting the nervous system, promoting healing, and optimizing well-being. This is a super interesting episode. I think you guys are going to love it. Keep listening to learn more.Elizabeth Stein 1:20
Jessica, welcome to the podcast! It is such a pleasure to meet you and to share all of your knowledge with our community. I feel like so much of our conversation in the holistic wellness world revolves around food, movement, and the mental side of things, but today’s conversation about the nervous system really helps people understand the "why" behind the science. We all know we should be breathing, but this conversation will explain what's happening in our body when we do. We’re going to ask you lots of questions today, so thank you for being here.Jessica McGuire 2:18
Thank you so much for having me, Elizabeth. I’m really excited to talk about the nervous system with your audience.Elizabeth Stein 2:25
Let’s start with your background and what made you focus on the nervous system. How did your journey lead you here?Jessica McGuire 2:37
Yeah, well, it was almost 22 years ago when I first started learning about the nervous system, but I probably wasn’t aware at the time just how much I was diving into it. I started out doing a Bachelor of Health Science, where I really looked at the electrocardiogram around the heart, which is part of the vagus nerve’s role. So, without knowing it, I was actually looking at the vagus nerve in quite a bit of detail. I also did a lot of study around metabolic biochemistry and the gut, and the communication between the gut and the brain—where the vagus nerve plays a major role. After that, I pursued a Master’s in Physiotherapy and spent 14 years in private practice. Most of my patients weren’t coming in with a sprained ankle or sore knee—they had persistent pain that wasn’t getting better. It was often lower back pain, neck pain, migraines—that kind of thing. What I noticed was a clear connection between their emotional regulation and their pain.Jessica McGuire 3:40
It was like an iceberg, where what you see on the surface are things like insomnia, anxiety, gut issues, and pain. But underneath, it was clear to me that I needed to address something deeper. What I discovered is that much of the pain processing comes from what we call “bottom-up” signals from the body to the brain, as well as “top-down” signals where our thoughts and beliefs influence our body. This communication, largely carried out by the vagus nerve and autonomic nervous system, became my focus. After closing my clinic, I spent years studying the research and did further postgraduate work specifically in this area. When I returned to treating patients in Australia, I found that I was getting better results by using simple frameworks that made sense and provided practical resources for people to use in their everyday lives.Elizabeth Stein 6:35
And now you have your brand-new book coming out as well!Jessica McGuire 6:39
Yes! The Nervous System Reset is just about to come out, which is super exciting. It’s really the culmination of those 22 years of work, and I’m so happy to offer this tangible resource to people who have felt hopeless for so long. This book provides them with tools and knowledge that they can use to regain control of their brain and body. Knowledge really is powerful.Elizabeth Stein 7:10
It’s so powerful, especially when you understand the “why” behind it. Before we dive deeper into science, I’m curious—what are some of the most common issues you’ve seen among people you’ve worked with over the years, whether in your practice or through your programs?Jessica McGuire 7:34
That’s a great question. Typically, people fall into two categories when their nervous system is dysregulated. You can think of it like a thermostat set either too high or too low. When the thermostat is set too high, people tend to be anxious, overwhelmed, or agitated, with an increase in mobilization energy. They can’t switch off, even when there’s nothing left to take care of. This group often experiences insomnia, gut issues, or persistent pain. Their relationships might also suffer, with behaviors like criticizing, blaming, or storming off during arguments. On the other hand, if the thermostat is set too low, people may have experienced stress for a long time, leading to a drop in energy. They might feel exhausted even with enough sleep, and struggle to take action or feel like things are hopeless.Jessica McGuire 9:26
I think everybody can relate to experiencing both of those, but we’re really looking at when it becomes the chronic state where we spend most of our time. They’re different presentations, but both relate to the nervous system.Elizabeth Stein 10:02
Okay, so let’s get into some of the basics. What is the nervous system, and as you started to just talk about those different states, what are those different states of the body?Jessica McGuire 10:15
That’s a really good question. It’s funny when we hear "nervous system" now because it’s coming into our language so much, which is wonderful, but we can talk about it in the big picture. We have the central nervous system, which is the brain and spinal cord, and then we have the autonomic nervous system, which is running between the brain and the body. Part of the autonomic nervous system is the sympathetic nervous system, which branches out from the spine and goes outwards to the body. Then we also have the vagus nerve, which, if you were to run your hand down the back of your head, you’d feel this bony ridge, and if you went inwards from there, that’s where the brainstem is. That’s where the vagus nerve starts.Jessica McGuire 11:00
One branch runs to the heart, and that has to do with the regulation of our emotions. It slows us down, but it also allows us to, if you think of it a little bit like a brake on a bike, we can let a little bit of that break off. It immobilizes energy, like if I’m going to talk to you today, I want to have some energy so I can focus and sustain this conversation. It helps us rise to challenges. Then the other part of the vagus nerve can go all the way down to the colon, and it touches almost every organ on the way down, so it plays a role in keeping our organs healthy. But then the parts that run upwards to the brain give us a really important sense of information. With the vagus nerve, 80% of its communication runs from the body up to the brain.Jessica McGuire 11:55
We often think, “Okay, if I’m stressed, I just need to think differently and then I’ll calm down.” But if we look at how our physiology is set up, it’s actually better in stressful times to connect with our body because the vagus nerve is communicating straight to the parts of the brain that have to do with the level of activation in our nervous system. It’s really interesting when we move away from that head-based approach of mindset work and being more positive, and we start to say, “Well, if we look at the vagus nerve’s role in regulation, connecting with our body might actually be the most efficient way to calm down.”Jessica McGuire 12:42
What happens is the sympathetic nervous system will take us into that state where I said it’s “too hot.” If we start out in a regulated state—this doesn’t mean we’re perfectly calm all the time, because that’s not realistic—but if we’re in a window where we have ups and downs in our level of activation but aren’t completely overwhelmed, then we can manage. But if I’m facing a stressor and I start to feel my heart beat faster and my palms getting clammy, that’s likely where the vagus nerve has released that brake, and the sympathetic nervous system is mobilizing us into fight or flight.There’s a band above that initial window, where it’s “too hot” or hyper-arousal, where there’s too much activation in our nervous system. In this state, we feel urgency. We hurry, our body tenses up, we feel anxious, and we snap at others. That’s being too wound up. If we deal with the stressor, we come back down into regulation. But if the stress persists or the stressor is too intense, we move into a freeze or collapse state, where we shut down.
Jessica McGuire 14:32
People often ask, “Why would I collapse? Why would my nervous system shut down in a stressful time?” But it’s a really beautiful adaptation. When we move into that state, we dissociate and disconnect from our body, which helps us cope. It’s like pulling on a handbrake, and then we have a release of endorphins that raise our threshold for pain—psychological and physical. It’s an adaptation to help us survive when the stress is too much. Those are the three states of the nervous system: regulation, fight-or-flight, and freeze. But we also have blended states, like play, where there’s mobilization but it’s kept in check by the vagus nerve. That’s when we’re in peak performance. For example, I feel that energy today while talking to you because I love this topic. We can use that to stretch our nervous system and learn to come back to regulation without moving into fight or flight.Elizabeth Stein 17:41
So, it’s healthy to move in and out of these states throughout the day, but we want to avoid staying in the extremes. We want to come back down to balance.Jessica McGuire 18:02
Exactly. It’s like homeostasis. For instance, I have an Oura Ring that tracks stress throughout the day. I’m curious to hear your take on these devices. It shows me as stressed throughout the day, but I don’t always feel it.Elizabeth Stein 19:08
What are the signs we should look for when we’re in a stress state but might not realize it?Jessica McGuire 19:23
Great question. Sometimes, with chronic stress or trauma, the volume of bodily signals gets turned down, and it’s hard to detect. For some people, especially those who are neurodivergent, it’s harder to read bodily signals. What’s the most accurate way to look at vagal functioning? Heart rate variability helps, but the gold standard is an ECG with electrodes. Sometimes, these external devices don’t match our experience.Jessica McGuire 20:46
We’ve seen this with students using devices like the Oura Ring, where the data doesn’t match what they feel. There’s also interoception—our eighth sensory system, where we perceive signals from our body. It can be as simple as thirst or needing to go to the bathroom. Interoception links to nutrition and emotions. We used to think emotions were only processed in one part of the brain, but we now know bodily signals play a huge role. Understanding this helps us read our nervous system better.Jessica McGuire 22:29
For instance, if we detect stress, our heart may beat faster, and we might feel chest tension or tightness in the jaw. Recognizing these signals without jumping to conclusions can help. It’s interesting that for some people, the volume of bodily signals is too loud, and it leads to anxiety. If we teach the brain to uncouple these signals from fear, we can reduce anxiety.Jessica McGuire 25:18
When we’re anxious, there’s an increased coupling from that region in the brain to the fear center. It’s almost like this path gets automatically walked down again, and we end up feeling anxious. But when we learn to connect to our body and read these signals accurately in the moment—without the thoughts and stories that say, “Something terrible is going to happen”—we can uncouple those neurons and change the way the brain communicates, so we don’t get as anxious. I think that is such an incredible and empowering thing because we really can step back into the driver’s seat.This is where it comes down to looking at: Is that data I’m taking in about my state actually helpful? Does it disconnect me from having this accuracy with these bodily signals, or does it make me think, “Oh my gosh, I’m really stressed,” when I’m not? I think it’s really important to consider whether it’s empowering or not to use that data. It has its place for sure, but we really want accurate data for understanding our nervous system.
Elizabeth Stein 26:57
You just started to talk about our ability for our brains to change, which connects to neuroplasticity and gives a lot of hope. Your book is all about being able to reset the nervous system. But before we kind of talk about how we can do that, as we think about nervous system dysregulation, why is that bad? How does that take a toll on the body, and what are some of those things that would show up as the body being out of balance?Jessica McGuire 27:00
That’s such a good question as well. When I explain that initial window of regulation, we can say, “Well, I’m inside my window at the moment. I’m not perfectly calm, but I’m not overwhelmed by emotions.” The width of that window changes on a day-to-day level. For example, if I was on my way to work this morning and my husband came to me about a problem, my window of tolerance to listen to him while I’m trying to get out the door is going to be pretty small. But if he talks to me about the same problem tonight, then it’s going to be a very different story.It also changes for the long term depending on what we’ve experienced. The main thing that changes the width of our window is if we’ve had a period of chronic or traumatic stress. So, two things happen when we have chronic and traumatic stress. Firstly, the vagus nerve acts like a brake. If we’re riding a bicycle downhill, we want to keep a little bit of that brake on all the time just so we’re not going too fast. When we need to face a demand, we relax the brake a little bit, go a bit faster, and then re-engage the brake. That’s what the devices we were talking about measure. It’s measuring how that brake is working.
Jessica McGuire 29:32
Now, if I have been through a period of chronic and traumatic stress and that recovery doesn’t happen, where the brake gets to come back on, it’s almost like we’re riding along still with the brake off. Then when something challenging happens, it goes off even more, and we’re in a state of anxiety—like we’re powering down the hill so fast with no brakes on. That sense of mobilization and anxiety means that if I don’t have my brake come back on, I’m spending a lot of time in that anxious state, and that excess mobilization is preparing us to run or fight.We’ll see changes in our immune system, hormonal system, and musculoskeletal system. The thing we might see the most is a change when it comes to inflammation because one of the vagus nerve’s main jobs is to balance our levels of inflammation in our body. We know the effect that has on the brain—depression is now being linked to inflammation as well, with more research coming out. I could be dysregulated in that mobilized state, which is like the “on” button is jammed, and that’s going to impact many of my systems.
If I exhaust that system, or the stressor continues and I can’t deal with it, then I will drop down, or use my third line of defense to try to deal with it, and slow back down—like pulling the handbrake on. In that case, I’ll feel the immobilization response, which can look like extreme procrastination. It feels like no matter what we do, we just can’t get motivated. We might find that we’re sleeping excessively and still feeling really tired. That also impacts our immune system and causes changes in our hormonal levels, particularly with things like cortisol.
Jessica McGuire 32:06
Cortisol is funny; we’ve called it a stress hormone, but its job is really to mobilize glucose for our brain to deal with what’s happening. If we’re in that chronic state of hypo-arousal, we might find that’s not happening, and we don’t have enough cortisol, so it’s like the “off” button is jammed. Our other systems will also be impacted by that. The hardest part with those two states is we are so taken out of the present moment that it’s hard to enjoy life. In that sympathetic mobilization, we’re off and running with the stories of “Go faster, do more.”The opposite can be true for the other state, where there’s a lot of shame that maps to that state as well. We might feel terrible about ourselves. There’s an emotional aspect, a physical aspect, and what’s happening in our brain-body system at that time.
Elizabeth Stein 32:44
As you think about the stress that comes to the body and can cause this dysregulation, we’re talking about stress of all kinds, right? This can be stress from what we’re eating, sleep, relationships, and toxins in the environment. It’s a whole breadth of different types of stress, or is it more specific to a certain type of stress?Jessica McGuire 32:42
This is a really good question. If I’m challenged, that can be really helpful because it means that my nervous system gets better at mobilizing energy and then using the brake to come back. It’s a bit like going to the gym for our nervous system. We want to challenge ourselves; we want to try things that are uncomfortable to grow. The things you’re talking about, like the foods we eat, the environment we’re in, and our relationships, absolutely impact the width of that window.That’s to do with the balance between all the systems and the way the brain and body communicate. I think it’s interesting with relationships, particularly because another part of the vagus nerve is the social engagement system that runs from the heart up to our face. We have such a hyper-individualistic culture that thinks, “Well, I just need to self-regulate and everything will be fine.” But what’s happening is our nervous system is always communicating with other people, and the social engagement system helps us hear the state somebody is in through their voice.
Elizabeth Stein 36:39
Yes, we can hear it in tone and inflection.Jessica McGuire 36:39
Exactly. I have a 14-month-old daughter, and I talk to her all the time in this high-pitched voice. Instinctively, I am co-regulating her. Hearing someone’s voice with a change in prosody and pitch is a sign that someone has their social engagement system online. If I’m in that sympathetic state, my voice might sound more like this, where there’s fight or anger. It’s monotone, or I could come into that flight phase where it’s up like this, and there are a lot of breaths taken every couple of words. You can hear the difference, and hearing that difference in someone’s voice will impact the listener’s nervous system too.When we’re dysregulated, we’re actually primed to hear low frequencies, like predator sounds, and we really struggle to listen. The vagus nerve isn’t just one nerve; it’s this whole ecosystem we can look at. That gives rise to what you’re saying—our relationships impact our nervous system, and the food we eat, as the vagus nerve is one of the main parts of the gut-brain axis.
Elizabeth Stein 37:12
Right, because we’ve spent years separating them.Jessica McGuire 37:12
Exactly. We’ve come from years of separating the brain and the body, but what we’re seeing now is there’s more interconnectedness than we’ve probably leaned into. The vagus nerve helps us see that. For example, why are people with IBS four times more likely to have anxiety? There’s a direct link. There’s also evidence showing that people with a history of trauma are far more likely to have gut disorders. It gives us a better way to treat people because often they go in for assessments, and nothing shows up, but their nervous system has changed its set point because of the stress.Elizabeth Stein 41:32
It’s amazing how everything is connected, and it’s exciting that we’re learning more about this. As we start to think about resetting the nervous system and healing, what are some of the most effective ways to bring the body back into balance?Jessica McGuire 42:18
Yeah, so one of my favorite ways is to play. Play, or learn to move into a state of mobilization, especially for people who are anxious. Many people tend to be on the anxious side. If we can think of something that brings energy into our system but keeps it in check, we can stay regulated. This could be dancing, singing, or doing something with someone who is in a regulated state. When we’re around co-regulators, our nervous system responds. Play is about finding that energy but keeping the vagus nerve activated so we don’t go into fight or flight.For people who don’t have access to a lot of co-regulators, pets are amazing co-regulators. Horses, dogs—this is why equine therapy exists. Even going to a dog park or beach can help. It doesn’t have to be a drastic overhaul of your life to create change. We can use these opportunities to stretch our nervous system and improve our capacity to come back to regulation. We don’t need to aim for being calm all the time, even though that’s what the wellness industry often sells us. Instead, we want to match what’s happening in our environment with the right activation in our brain and body.
Elizabeth Stein 45:38
It’s like metabolic flexibility—being able to use carbs or fats as fuel. How effective is breathwork in helping to reset the nervous system?Jessica McGuire 45:59
Breathwork can be really helpful, but I don’t always recommend it as the first step, especially for people who’ve been in a freeze state for a long time. When we start paying attention to our breath, it can amplify stress because in freezing, our breath also freezes. If we’re in a panic state, focusing on the breath can also make things worse. So, while breathwork is a great tool, I think the first step should be building capacity and working with interoception—learning to read the body’s signals before jumping to breathwork. It’s not a one-size-fits-all approach. For someone already in a flat state, long exhalations could prolong that state, so it’s important to be specific with the tools we use.Elizabeth Stein 48:10
So, if there’s one thing listeners can take away for how they can heal their nervous system and feel their best, what would it be?Jessica McGuire 48:24
I would say it’s learning to recognize the bodily signals and emotions associated with different states of the nervous system. It’s like learning a new language, but once you can do that, you can proactively manage your emotions and avoid dysregulation altogether. If you can recognize the early signs of irritation or stress, you can take action before it escalates.Elizabeth Stein 49:45
That’s so powerful. Your overall message really is one of hope and empowerment—that we can change our brains and feel our best. Thank you! Let’s end with some rapid-fire Q&A. What are three things you’re currently loving? It could be a product, a podcast, a TV show—anything.Jessica McGuire 50:23
I’m currently loving a book by Maggie Dent called Girlhood. If anyone has a daughter, I highly recommend it. For a product, I’m really loving Dr. Naomi’s skincare range, which is Australian-based, and I’ve noticed a big improvement in my skin. And lastly, I recently chopped all my hair off, and I’m loving the change—it’s saving me so much time!Elizabeth Stein 51:04
It looks great! What’s your favorite morning ritual?Jessica McGuire 51:11
I wake up at five, not by choice—my daughter’s feeding time! But I use that time for my nervous system practices. I’ve been doing an interoceptive practice where I connect with my bodily signals and use that information to guide my meditation.Elizabeth Stein 51:44
What’s the most recent meditation you’ve done?Jessica McGuire 51:49
The most recent one was a listening meditation from one of my teachers, Tara Brach.Elizabeth Stein 52:03
What do you wish more people knew about you?Jessica McGuire 52:08
I think I would want people to know that even though I teach this and know this, I’m still learning too. Whenever I think I’ve figured out my nervous system, I find a new layer to work through.Elizabeth Stein 52:31
We’re all definitely not perfect! What are your favorite words to live by?Jessica McGuire 52:39
The body’s narrative is more important than the story we tell with words.Elizabeth Stein 52:54
And lastly, what’s your number one non-negotiable to thrive on your wellness journey?Jessica McGuire 53:02
Definitely nutrition. I used to say sleep, but I don’t have a choice anymore with my daughter loving to party through the night! But nutrition is key, and that means planning and cooking. If I don’t do my Sunday meal prep, the wheels fall off during the week.Elizabeth Stein 53:31
I love that! Well, Jessica, thank you so much for being here. Where can everybody find you and your new book?Jessica McGuire 53:40
Thank you so much, Elizabeth! You can head over to my website, jessicamcguire.com, where you’ll find information about the book, events, and our training.Elizabeth Stein 53:51
Amazing! Thank you so much for being here.Jessica McGuire 53:54
Thank you for having me!Elizabeth Stein 54:00
Thanks so much for joining me on Live Purely with Elizabeth. I hope you feel inspired to thrive on your wellness journey. If you enjoyed today’s episode, don’t forget to rate, subscribe, and review. You can follow us on Instagram at purely_elizabeth to catch up on all the latest. See you next Wednesday on the podcast!